“I don’t know how to talk to those people, so I don’t even try.”
Frequently I hear this sentiment when leading seminars, workshops or other events about the threat of white Christian Nationalism. Rarely are such words spoken with disdain; rather, a sense of frustration, resignation or helplessness typically comes through. A common refrain is: Why have so many people I know — family members, friends, neighbors, acquaintances — bought into the lie of America being established as a Christian nation? Why are they determined to make our government Christian? Why do they insist they have the “freedom” to discriminate and punish people they don’t like?
Psychologists and psychiatrists, too, are trying to understand the extremist ideology of Christian Nationalism. A recent study published in the journal Political Psychology examined personality characteristics of white Christian Nationalists, finding adherents to be highly conscientious (organized and predictable), particularly in terms of self-discipline. Dogmatically following a strong leader whom they perceive to be chosen of God — a manifestation of a personality cult — many unquestionably believe in an authoritarian cause to which they are fully committed. The study’s conclusion is unsettling: “The phenomenon of a political personality cult may have arrived in full force in U.S. democracy, and could potentially be its undoing.”
Christianity’s politicization and democracy’s unraveling is an overriding concern, too, of many level-headed Christian ministers, who also perceive Christian Nationalism as a cult. Throughout America progressive clergy are lamenting that many within their once-perceived inclusive congregations are in reality Christian Nationalists whose blind allegiance is to a warmongering, authoritarian God.
Nonetheless, a sizable number of persons living within Christian Nationalist environments are not blind followers of a charismatic authoritarian political leader. Nor are they unthinking. In fact, many Americans, me included, grew up within a Christian Nationalist enclave — a fundamentalist Southern Baptist community in my instance — but ultimately walked away. A common denominator in our leaving is that at some point we opened our minds to knowledge forbidden within our close-minded religious enclaves, eventually realizing we could no longer stay.
My leaving began as a high schooler when someone outside of my religious enclave casually said the Southern Baptist Convention had been formed to preserve the enslavement of Black persons. I was stunned, never having heard such a claim. Realizing I would not find an authentic answer within my church — and wondering what else was being hidden from me — I turned to knowledgeable outside sources in search of the truth.
For some of you who are reading these words, my story is also your story: When we began seeking authentic answers to forbidden questions, the fabricated belief system that was the foundation of our Christian Nationalist environment began falling apart.
Today millions of thinking people yet remain within the world of Christian Nationalism. Many stay so as not to wreak havoc within their families. Some inherited a tradition of keeping their thoughts to themselves rather than disrupt community peace. Some disagree with or doubt Christian Nationalism but find personal meaning within their close-minded community. Some are guilted into staying for fear of being damned to hell if they leave. Some, literally having no friends outside of their Christian Nationalist environment, feel trapped.
For reasons legion and personal both, many persons living within Christian Nationalist environments are quietly searching for authenticity — for truth and personhood that transcends dogmatism — forbidden within authoritarian religious enclaves.
Fortunately, there are very real and identifiable spaces within which we can meaningfully dialogue with such persons. In a 2021 survey by Pew Research, for example, only 20% of Americans expressed support for “church-state integration.” A March 2024 study by the Associated Press and the NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found that 84% of Americans believe that “freedom of religion” is “extremely or very important.” This data tells us there is an opening for authentic dialogue — even with those who interpret “freedom of religion” to apply only to persons like them.
With this knowledge in mind, where might we begin?
First, there must be actual conversation; talking “to” someone with evangelical-like intent is not a dialogue. How many of us have too often been on the receiving end of a one-directional verbal stream of spoken words, void of any actual interest in our thoughts (sermons included)?
Asking open-ended, inquisitive questions is a better route to connecting with another person. When asking open-ended questions of someone I don’t really know — a store cashier, a conference attendee, a coffee shop stranger, a suspected Christian Nationalist — I’ve learned that doing so without first interjecting my own beliefs or thoughts allows space for that person to feel acknowledged. After all, how many of us have, on occasion, opened up to strangers whom we perceived to authentically want to know more about us? There are certainly exceptions, but as humans we want to be known and are often happy to talk about ourselves when given the opportunity.
Even with this understanding of our human nature of wanting to be known, however, the manner in which we converse with others is critical. Psychologist and political scientist Alex Pattakos, co-founder of the Global Meaning Institute, points to authentic dialogue as a way to “answer humanity’s call for meaning.” He notes that the “Ancient Greeks advanced what they referred to as a “common education” to “heal disunion and division of spirit,” using dialogue to build community.
“Authentic dialogue,” Pattakos continues, “enables individuals to acknowledge that they each are part of a greater whole, that they naturally resonate with others within this whole, and that the whole is, indeed, greater than the sum of its various parts.” We are all human beings: By connecting with “others” in authentic dialogue, we are doing our part to advance the healing of “disunion and division” and the building of community.
But what does “authentic dialogue” look like?
“Body language is an essential part of communication and can be just as important as our verbal exchanges,” notes psychiatrist Lea Lis, a clinical professor at New York University. Words alone don’t cut it. “Often, it’s the nonverbal messages we send in our gestures, facial expressions, or posture that can cement or invalidate our words. Body language can be both conscious or subconscious actions, so it is important to make sure your body is sending the same messages as your words to ensure good communication.” It is important to keep in mind that our gestures, facial expressions and posture “can cement or invalidate our words.”
Still, according to many experts, words and body language are less important than tone. “People are more sensitive to tone than to the explicit content of spoken or written language,” summarizes psychologist Rick Hanson, a Senior Fellow at UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center and a New York Times best-selling author. “To paraphrase the poet Maya Angelou, people will forget what you said, but they’ll remember how you made them feel. And we are particularly reactive to negative tones” which foster stress, hurt and anger.
I will never forget how I felt as a young adult when a friend, teacher or acquaintance perceptively communicated something that gave me pause or served as a breath of fresh air and, over time, contributed to a better understanding of myself and the world around me. Each of us has the same potential of passing along to others the gift of listening, discerning and connecting.
This means we have to be authentic as well, willing to entertain as well as ask questions – to dialogue. In fact, there is a good chance that we all have more in common with those people than we might think. For example, various reputable surveys of the American public within the past few years indicate that most Americans not only support the separation of church and state, but also believe that:
- Abortion should be legal in most or all cases.
- Contraception should be legal nationwide.
- Racism is a problem.
- LGBTQ+ persons should have equal rights.
Each and every one of these personal freedom convictions held by most Americans is grounded upon our collective, most basic of American freedoms — freedom of religion (or no religion) and conscience for all, equally — guaranteed by our nation’s constitutional separation of church and state.
Christian Nationalism, to be certain, is not going away anytime soon. The most rigid adherents of the movement and ideology will not be moved. But many living within Christian Nationalist environments share some of the same beliefs, hopes, dreams and even overlapping stories with those of us without.
For the sake of our common humanity and the protection and preservation of our nation’s democracy, millions of us who once lived within Christian Nationalist environments can testify that authentic dialogue with “those people” is not only possible, but a must.